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 Post subject: GCBRO MORA COUNTY
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:40 am 
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Reported by Confidential

RECEIVED: From the G.C.B.R.O. Web Site Submission Form

DATE: 1968 or 1969, 1973 or 1974, 1978, 11-95 & '96

TIME: Day and night time sightings

LOCATION: Mora County, New Mexico


OBSERVED: Let me start at the begining. My name is John. My grandfather who has recently passed away, owned an 1100 acre ranch along Coyote Creek. Approximately -- miles out side of Mora County, New Mexico. The first incident occured in about 1968 or 1969. According to my uncle, who's nick name is Leroy, he is known to be an exaggerator, so I never really knew if he was telling the truth until I had my own experiences. Any way he was on a camping trip during that summer, with his hippie friends, two girls and one guy. They had set up a tent to sleep in and started a camp fire, and ate dinner.

Just after dark, my uncle, and his male friend who were both Vietnam veterans had began to brag in front of these girls about who was the stongest, and most fearless, and so on, anyway it had gotten pretty late, probably around midnight, as leroy recalled and he said to his friend....If you're such a tough guy, why don't you walk across the creek, and up the side of the mountain in the pitch black of the night, and when you get about half way up, sleep there by yourself for the remainder of the night. He said... You can take your sleeping bag, but nothing else, and his friend replied... no problem, since he had been a green beret, and was afraid, so he claimed, of nothing. So he grabbed his sleeping bag, and set out in the dark. Just as he agreed, and proceeded about half way up the mountain, where he laid down to sleep.

Then approximately about 3:00 A.M., my uncle, and the girls woke to a horribly loud scream that he had never heard before in his life. He said it was eerie, somewhere between a roar and a scream. He was so terrified that he grabbed a shovel, and jumped out of the tent to see if he could see anything. It was still dark but he could see something coming down the mountain hobbling, and approaching his tent very rapidly. He clenched the shovel and was getting ready to swing, when he heard the voice of his friend saying, its me, its me. He was still in his mummy bag.

My uncle asked him what happened, and he said a giant creature had walked up to where he was sleeping, on two legs. He said it was covered with hair, and roared at him. He got so scared, he didn't have time to get out of his sleeping bag. He said to Leroy we need to get the hell out of here so they loaded up the camp, and drove off as fast as they could!

The next incident was an experience my grandfather had. It was about 1973 or 1974. He had cattle and he drove out about once a month to check on them. He had a small cabin near the creek. He would often take me with him. We were very close, and had a special sort of bond. We would have long talks, and really got to know each other. Any way we went to spend a weekend at the cabin, so he could do his routine.

We got there in the evening, ate dinner, and went to bed. He always got up at 4 in the morning, before the sun came up and set out across the creek, to cut wild loco weed, so the cows would not eat it. I would stay in bed till about 8 a.m., when he would return and make breakfast. Well that morning he retuned about 5 a.m., woke me and looked white as a ghost. I knew him well, and he was a man that was not afraid of any thing. He said he was cutting loco weed at precisely the crack of dawn, when he heard a scream that made the skin crawl up the back of his neck. It was unlike anything he had ever heard. He said at first he thought it sounded like a womans scream, but there was something animal like, it was very hard for him to describe. This was a man who was raised on this very mountain and had visited time, and time again, but never recalled anything like it.

The next incident, was my first direct experience. It happenened on our 4th of July vacation 1978. It was a family event. We arrived a few days early. It was me, my brother and sister, my father and mother, my grandfather and grandmother, my cousin Freddie, my God parents, and a few other friends of the family, and my dog, a red doberman pincher named Vader.

The night we arrived, we all started to set up. The men collected wood for the bonfire, while the women cooked dinner on the cast iron Army stove, that was out side of the cabin, under a wooden type porch, with picnic tables. My god parents had their RV about 25 yards away. We ate dinner, and sat around the campfire, roasting marshmallows, and hotdogs, and Jiffy Pop popcorn, over the open fire. At that time we had an adobe house approximately 1/4 mile west of the cabin with several beds. Anyway we were tired, it was getting late, and everybody decided to go to bed. We put the fire out, and me, my mom, dad, sister, and brother, grandpa, and grandma, walked to the adobe house, and the others stayed.

When we got there everybody layed down, and me, my dad, and brother, went out side the front door, to urinate, since the house had no plumbing. We were facing the east, and it was a very calm quiet night. Then I noticed a strange whirring noise coming from the east, above the top of the moutain, and directly above the first lake I saw a light hovering and pointed it out to my dad and brother. We stared in awe and watched it move very quickly up and down, and side to side. In what looked like a square pattern, never veering away from above the lake. My dad worked for the department of energy and the department of weaponry at Sandia Labs, and was experienced with different types of goverment planes, which was what we thought it might be, but he remarked it was impossible, because the G force this thing was exhibiting, moving abruptly up and down, and side to side, was too tremendous.

I ran in to get my grandfather to take a look. He came out and looked quite shocked, but then said it was just a shooting star, and said we should all get to bed, because there was a lot of work to do in the morning, and my dad replied, yeah right. So my grandfather went to bed, but we stayed, and continued to watch this shooting star continue its square type flying pattern, for about another 45 minutes, all the while emitting a strange whirring noise, then it hovered still, in what looked like the exact center above the lake, for a couple of minutes, emmited an extremely loud noise, and shot straight up into the stars, at what apeared to be the speed of light, and vanished! Me, my brother, and my dad, were totally astounded. The next morning we went on as if it had never happened. My dad never said another word about it. We ate breakfast, went for a hike, came back, had lunch. The men got together for a game of cards, and beer on the picnic tables. The women went inside the cabin to gossip. My brother and sister were playing together. Me and my cousin Freddie were bored, and we approached my grandfather. He said I have the cure for you, and quickly put us to work.

He had a ten acre corral, fenced with barbed wire, surrounding a fruit orchard. What he wanted us to do was take these wire twists, and insert them between the posts, binding the barbed wire through the twists. So we took as many twists as we could carry, and my dog, and set out to the southwest corner of the corral. There were no cows, because they were on top of the mesa grazing. It was a beautiful clear and warm day.
I told my cousin, we'll start at this corner, you work west toward the fruit orchard, and I'll work the fence north.

My dog stayed at my side, as I worked north. About 30 minutes into it my dog started acting very strange. I was trying to continue north, but he would not move. He was frozen stiff, belly and nose down in the dirt, facing West directly towards the fruit orchard. His eyes were tearing, which I had never seen before, and he was letting out a very quiet whimpering, which I had never seen before. I kicked and pulled at him to try to get him to move, but he would not budge. Then I could hear a heavy breathing, very low pitched rumbling, and then a long, loud, low pitched roar, coming directly from the fruit orchard.

I looked, and I saw what I thought was a bear. I could still hear it breathing. I looked closer, focusing my eyes, and noticed it was sitting down like a man, on a knocked over tree, as it was eating apples with one hand, still breathing heavy, but yet it seemed to be looking directly at me, and I got the feeling it was happy, and somehow smiling at me. At that moment, my cousin had reached me at break neck speed, yelling did you hear that? I replied I'm looking at it. He turned to look. We saw it stand from its sitting position, next to a 12 foot apple tree. It seemed to be just as tall as the tree, or pretty close reaching in grabbing apples with one arm, one at a time, then sit and eat one at a time, while staring at us every time it ate one.

It was covered in long reddish hair all over its body. The sun was shining directly on it its hair. It almost seemed to have blondishe sun bleached highlights, very shiny. It had a cone shaped head, It looked clean. I personally wasn't scared, but my cousin was frantic, and the way my dog was acting troubled me. My cousin said were dead. I replied look at the length of its legs. We are standing about 200 yards away. I said, I think if it really wanted to hurt us, we would already be dead, and he replied I'm not taking any chances, I'm gonna make a run for it. I said if you're running, I'm not staying.

So we took one last look, and darted, and my dog got up and darted after us. We ran as fast as we could to the cabin, where my dad, grandfather, godfather, and their friends, were playing poker, and drinking beer. We ran up screaming frantically there's some sort of creature in the fruit orchard. My grandfather replied you guys are just trying to get out of work dammit. Get back to work. Nobody would believe us so I told my little brother, and he said I want to see it. Show me. He grabbed a hand full of bottle rockets, and we walked towards the orchard. To his amazement, and ours the creature was still there eating apples.

My brother started shooting bottle rockets at it. I told him not to but he did not listen. Then the creature casually stood up from its sitting position, and gracefully walked deeper into the orchard, out of our view. We told my brother to walk over into the orchard, to see if it was still there, and he replied no way! We knew no one would ever believe us. So we put it behind us, and just tried to forget about it. We would talk about it amongst each other, but never to any one else, out of fear of ridicule. Years went by!

The next incident happened in the winter of 1995 about mid November. I was anxious to start my own business, selling live trees. I had a small Mazda pickup my grandfather was loaning me. I got my nursery license, tree tags, some twine, some burlap, some nails, chicken wire, a bailing hook, a shovel, and two spades. My idea was to collect Pinon and Juniper from my grandfathers ranch, bring it to Albuquerque, and sell it on the side of the road.

I was married then, my son only seven years old, so they (my wife and son) stayed in town, while I ventured out on the weekends to collect trees. Always the same set of circumstances. I chose an area with loose soil. However there is an abundance of minerals in this 80 acre area, off of the main dirt road. Its pristine, virtually untouched virgin land, but definitely a mineralologists dream, heavy pine Pinon, and Juniper in the lower elevation, and Douglas fir, white fir in the upper region. The minerals I've came across while digging up trees, I've seen huge chunks of pyrite fall from the rootballs as I dig them out. Copper, azurite, silver, white quartz, flint, and many others, I dont even know the names of. A rock collectors dream.

Any way back to my point, I drive my truck into this certain area as far as I can until the trees become so thick I have to stop and set out on foot. I grab my back pack with all my gear including food and water, and one shovel, and a spade. No guns! I dont believe in them! I walk about 300-600 yards into the forest. Looking for only the best looking tree specimens I can find, one here, one there, spread out. I'll locate one, set down my gear, take a drink of water, take a deep breath of fresh air, relax, and break out my favorite pipe, and then start to dig. About 15 minutes into it I get a strange sensation. A distinct feeling that I am being watched. I look into the trees and I can see movement from tree to tree, at several points, in various locations, about two hundred yards, but the figures are shadowy, and hard to focus on, but they seem to be large, upright, moving from behind the tree to another tree.

Well I figure maybe my minds just playing tricks on me, so I continue with my work, I'll collect all my trees, lift the rootballs, and drag them back to my truck, and call it a day, and drive back to Albuquerque, and return ever other weekend or so that winter, with the identical circumstances.

I told my wife and she didn't know what to make of it. The summer came and I didn't return til the next winter in 1996. That first winter was dry, and there was no snow, but the next winter was moist. I started again in november this time it was snowing quite heavy. I did the same routine but this time there was virgin snow. I got out of the truck at the usual location, but walking through fresh snow, my foot prints visible, I walked out, did my usual routine. About 15 minutes into digging I get the same "I'm being watched" sensation, but this time I for sure can clearly see a figure in the trees, very visable, because every thing is white and this figure is dark, but I try not to pay too much attention and continue my work. Once all my trees are ready, I grab the first two, one rootball in each hand, and drag them towards the truck, following the exact foot prints I made earlier.

About halfway to the truck I saw foot prints directly crossing my path, about 15 to 18 inches in length, very large with 3 toes, a left foot and a right foot, one large toe on each a medium toe and a smaller toe about 7 to 8 feet a part. I wonder could this be the same creature I had seen when I was a child? I returned several weekends in a row that same winter, in fresh snow with the exact same circumstances. I told my wife and she definitely believed me, but who else would believe me? I thought.

So I called my brother. I told him the story and suggested it could be the same creature we had seen when we were kids. He remembered the incident when we were kids, but still he said my current story sounded a bit hard to believe. So I said there is only one way to find out, and asked if he would go to the area the following weekend. He agreed. We went together that weekend, and I did every thing the same. It was snowing really hard when we got there. So we sat in the truck until it died down some. We got out together, only our tracks in the snow, and walked out about 300 yards, and started to dig. I figured we would take turns. I told him to start digging. He went about 10 minutes, and then I went about 10 minutes, and then he said he had an incredible sensation. I felt it too. We looked out, and saw what seemed to be twenty or so figures watching and moving about 100 yards in a half circle in the perimeter.

He was terrified! I told him not to be, as animals have been known to sense fear. I told him to relax. I gave him a drink of water, and we both smoked my pipe. We continued our work, started gathering our equipment, and trees, followed our foot prints out. I expected to see tracks as I had before and we did but I was astounded. For the first time I saw three sets of 3 toed prints. The large set I had seen before, but a smaller set and even smaller set! I looked at him and said, Oh my God, there must be families of these creatures. I said damn, we should have brought some plaster! Nobody's ever going to believe us, but at the same time I was relieved, because I had at least one real witness and if nothing else, I knew I wasn't imagining these incidents!

Im sure I could have gathered even more proof, but my father wanted me to stop digging up trees, in fear that I might damage the environment. He told my grandmother to pull the plug on my tree business, and my grandfather took the truck! I've recently passed through the area during the summer months and have had the same being watched sensations. I know they're out there!

Back to my dilemma I spoke of at the beginning, I feel like I'm caught between science, and nature. On one hand I feel its my duty to reveal this because it may be of great importance to science, and mankind. On the other hand I feel these creatures have never brought any harm to me, and I owe it to them to preserve and protect their safe haven. I have to look at all the angles. Man, by nature, wants to ultimately prove he is the smartest of all species. To do this he has exploited, caged, and zooed every other species on the planet as specimens of a lower intellect, somehow giving himself a sense of empowerment and dominion over other species. If an alien race of a higher intellect caged and zooed us because we were not as smart, would that be right? What exactly would happen if we could absolutely proove bigfoot exists? Would the bigfoot benefit or would we benefit? Would we get rich, would we be famous, would we have a moment of glory? What would the bigfoot gain? Why has bigfoot eluded mankind for so long? There must be a reason? With all the reported sightings I would think its pretty obvious that it exists? Isnt that enough? My own personal experience suggests to me that bigfoot is trying to comunicate something to us and that is symbiosis, mutual respect for all living creatures. By hunting them down aren't we just forcing them to run further away? Maybe we should just leave well enough alone! What do you think? For the sake of science I am willing to take a lie detector test to back my claims. My brother is also willing. I have not spoken to my cousin in years but I am sure I could persuade him to take the test also.

ACTIVITIES OF WITNESS(ES): See each individual sighting above

DESCRIPTION OF CREATURE: Again, read above for any descriptions
(sketch below)

Report taken and Posted to the G.C.B.R.O. web site by Mary Green

the backwoods Mad Scientist

 Post subject: Re: GCBRO MORA COUNTY
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:57 am 
MABRC Forum Administrator, MABRC Western Oklahoma State Director, Mid-South Regional Assistant Director
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1972 - 1973 - Many suspicious incidents, Bigfoot?

Submitted by Bobby Hamilton.
Reported by Confidential

REPORT RECEIVED: From the G.C.B.R.O. Web Site Submission Form

DATE: These incidents occurred on several different
occasions in 1972-1973.

TIME: Not Stated

LOCATION: Pecos Wilderness Area in Northern New Mexico.
The two areas involved are Mora Flats and Lower
Mora Canyon. Both of these are reached by foot
trail from the Iron Gate Campground.

TERRAIN: Mora Flats is a huge miles-long meadow with
wildflowers, small timber stands, streams, beaver

OBSERVED: These are not sightings, vocalizations, or tracks. Mostly just "puzzle pieces". These incidents occurred on several different occasions in 1972-1973 in the Pecos Wilderness Area in northern New Mexico. The two areas involved are Mora Flats and Lower Mora Canyon. Both of these are reached by foot trail from the Iron Gate Campground and are 3-5 miles back into the wilderness.

The Pecos is a 223,000+ acre wilderness area in the Sangre De Christo mountains between Santa Fe and Taos and is comprised of parts of the Santa Fe and Kit Carson National Forests which also surround it. It is accessible from several areas, but we always used the Pecos-Glorieta exit off I-25. A paved road runs north thru the village of Pecos and through a sparsely populated area of homes, dude ranches, abandoned mica and quartz mines, and resorts. After a time, the road turns to dirt and ends in a little town named Cowles, which is, if memory serves me right, about 30 miles from the Interstate. We always turned off just before Cowles and went to the Iron Gate Campground, past what is called the Grass Mountain Summer Home Area.
The road is terrible, seasonally impassable, and on one occasion we had to park down below and walk the road in order to get to Iron Gate. Iron Gate is not a campground per se (no facilities), it's really just a parking area.

From Iron Gate, trails lead to several areas (the two I mentioned and Pecos Falls - there may be others). The reason we chose this area is the relatively short distances to the camping areas. I'd have liked to spend more time and go further back in, but weekends are too short, even 3 day holiday weekends.

My first experience with Pecos was with one of my Air Force roomies in the fall of 1972; we often took off for parts unknown on the weekends with sleeping bags, maybe fishing gear, and little else - just anything to get away from the base for a while. And all 3 of us liked the outdoors. We'd eat in whatever greasy spoon we found and rough it on the ground or sleep in the car if the weather was bad.

One weekend, we headed north for some fishing, cruised the Carson National Forest looking for some likely trout fishing spots, ended up asking a ranger for some ideas on good fishing areas, and he directed us to Pecos.
We stopped at the Pecos ranger station, got the maps, signed in, and off we went.

Mora Flats is several miles northeast of Iron Gate and is reached by well-delineated foot trail. The trail descends almost immediately down the back side of Round Mountain ( I THINK). Mora Flats is a huge miles-long meadow with wildflowers, small timber stands, streams, beaver ponds and one must climb a mountain to get out, no matter which direction you go. On the first trip with just one of my roomies, Pat Rine, we were not very well-prepared......... we had taken minimal gear and were not really set up for a weekend of wilderness backpacking, so the whole weekend was a struggle with the elements (cold rain). We met a hippie couple down from Colorado who kindly fed us and helped us stay warm and dry under a spare tarp.

Event 1:

The two of us were back on another weekend shortly thereafter with backpacks, GI issue down bags, plastic tarps, sufficient food, and the rest of it. This was when the first "incident" happened. This would have been in May, 1972. We camped in the lower part of the meadows, just inside the trees. We walked around, looked at some beaver ponds, saw a timber rattler, and did some fishing - we had hoped to catch enough for a meal. The streams are stocked (by pack mule) with rainbow and German brown trout and have a few native cutthroat. In late afternoon, we split up, following the Rio Mora. Pat went downstream, I went upstream. I fished along the stream with some success. In some places, the brush was so thick that it was barely possible to stick the rod tip through to drop a line in the stream. I followed the Rio Mora to its headwaters - the Rito Mora and the Rito Valdez meet to form the Rio Mora, which joins the Pecos probably 5 or 6 miles below. The water source is snow melt and alpine lakes higher up - the higher mountains are snow capped year around.

I followed the course of the Valdez. It was even more brush covered right up to its edges. It's just a trickle - very shallow, mostly less than a foot deep, maybe 8 to 10 feet wide. Eventually, I was hopping from rock to rock in the stream bed itself. I caught a few little trout. Finally, I came to a small clearing where I could get back onto the bank. In that clearing was a small beaver pond formed by a partial diversion of the stream and it ran right up to the edge of a mountainside. It was about 4 feet deep and was very still and calm.

Next to this pond, I found a small deer skeleton, antler less, maybe a fawn (Pecos has both white tail and mule deer). This in itself is no huge find. It's not uncommon to find skeletal remains in the wilderness. What was uncommon was this: this skeleton was perfect and untouched. The flesh and fur had decomposed and fallen off - vestiges were visible on the ground below the carcass. There was no hint of what might have killed it and there was no sign of predation. Usually a skeleton in the wild will be pulled apart as scavengers tear off flesh. This was a museum piece. I marveled at
the completeness and even contemplated picking it up and carting it out - it would have made a nice display if one took the time to clean it up and glue the bones together - it was THAT complete. But I didn't have a way to carry it just then - just a fanny pack - and the difficulty in getting back out through the creek bed had pretty much convinced me that it was a bad idea.

As I stood there looking at it, something started to happen to me. A sense of foreboding and fear started to come over me. I had the sense that there were eyes on me. I looked around, saw nothing out of the ordinary, heard nothing, but the fear was still there. The pond looked black and threatening and the woods seemed dead and barren - no sound but the burbling of the creek. The longer I stood there, the more ominous things felt. I have never experienced anything like that. I beat it back into the creek bed and got out of there in a hurry. Once back in the open meadows, I felt a little
relief, but I still felt a need to get some distance between me and that place. About a mile away, I found Pat along the creek closer to our camp and related what happened. He was a more experienced woodsman than me and he had
not seen, heard, or felt anything out of the ordinary. The rest of the weekend went without incident (and we ate trout for supper and breakfast - yum!).

(1) How/why could a deer carcass decompose to bare bones without being bothered at all? This area has all the small predators and scavengers, including numerous coyotes, which will eat anything. At the top of the food chain are black bear (no grizzlies left in NM) and cougar, and we actually had a black bear in our camp one night on another occasion. And we saw all the other small animals you might expect you see in the area.

(2) Why the foreboding? Is it related to the fear/flee phenomenon people have reported with bigfoot - possibly caused by pheromones, a theory I have seen advanced elsewhere?

(3) Are the two related? Did predators/scavengers feel the same sense of fear I did and avoid the area, thus leaving the deer to decay?

(4) Did I just get the jitters when I first saw Pecos? My mind said "This sure looks like Bigfoot country!" In all honesty, I was just off a fresh reading of one of John Green's books. Did it all happen in my head? I don't know - the fear seemed real to me at the time. I pretty much wrote it off as just that but it has always sort of bugged me. I have spent plenty of time out alone in the woods and never felt that sort of panic before or after.

1972 - we went another time or two before winter ........... uneventful.

Event 2:

Spring 1973 - first trip - around Memorial Day - Mora Flats:

I observed a man's jacket on top of a pine tree about 12 or more feet off the ground along the Rito Mora in Lower Mora Canyon. It was clearly a jacket - a grey work jacket like Mr. Goodwrench would wear, well-weathered as if it had been there a long time. Just draped over the top of a tree. I can't think of an easy way to get it there, and I can't think of a reason anyone would put it there. It's entirely possible a human could have done it, but why and at what effort? Maybe placed it there with a long stick?
Maybe walked right up to the tree in the dead of winter on snowshoes when the snow was high? This area gets snow built up that deep. Still the question "Why" comes up. In my mind's eye, I can visualize a big hairy guy reaching up and hanging it there LOL. Just a little mystery.............

Event 3: probably Spring 1973: this time, in Lower Mora Canyon.

From Iron Gate Campground, walk east up to the summit of Grass Mountain (maybe Round Mountain), follow the trail along steep switch backs down the side of the mountain. This descends into a steep canyon through which the Mora River (Rio Mora) runs. The area is 2 or 3 miles directly downstream from Mora Flats. One could get there through the canyon, but it's very steep-sided in places and much more overgrown - it would be a tough slog from Mora Flats to Lower Mora Canyon. On our first trip to the Canyon, we found a nice campsite - used but not abused. Existing fire ring, big log to sit on, under the trees, below some steep cliffs, crystal clear water, lots of dead falls for firewood, small pretty meadow just below and a bigger meadow across the creek. On a slope across the river, a mile or so away, up in an area where there had been a forest fire years before (the area was called The Big Burn) you could sometimes see elk grazing. Just beautiful! This trip was with 4 or 5 of us - my other roomie and 1 or 2 other of our buddies. On some trips we had up to 8 or 10 guys...... the word spread about Pecos and we sort of ended up as masters of ceremonies. We all had lotsa fun there and we always camped at this location when we were in the Canyon.

On this trip, I discovered what looked like a shelter. It was within about 20 feet of our campsite. This was right down on the creek bank in the roots of a tree on the edge of the water. The roots had been exposed by erosion from the creek and sort of arched out into the air. Across these roots had been laid some sticks (looked like dead falls, not cut with a
tool). On top of these were remaining vestiges of leaves that had been placed there. This formed a lean-to type shelter big enough for one man (or maybe one bigfoot). The whole thing looked well-weathered as if it had been there a while. It gave the clear appearance of being constructed, rather than sticks and leaves deposited there during flooding.

What struck me then was that this would not be a very good shelter - right on the creek. What if it rained and the creek rose? So maybe not a shelter? Hunting blind? Possible - the trail up the mountain to where the elk were was visible across the creek a short distance away. But a man could have built an equally effective and more comfortable blind up on the bank several feet above the creek without compromising his stealth and camouflage. I went across the creek and looked at it from the trail. It was visible, but I was looking for it. In its presumed original state, with fresh leaves over the branches, it would have been much less visible. So maybe it was a blind rather than a shelter - but for who? Man or man-ape?
(Note: I MAY have a slide of this....... gotta look.)

Event 4: Now they get better..... these last 2 have DEFINITE bf overtones.<>

Lower Mora Canyon, summer 1973. Large group - probably 8 or more guys. In the cliffs above our campsite (I mentioned them earlier), there was a cave visible (and I definitely DO have a slide of it). A couple of the more
energetic guys decided they were going to climb up and look in the cave. The rest of us were puttering around the campsite. They left, we saw them climbing up a steep hillside alongside the cliff until they were out of sight in the trees. We never saw them come out on the ledge in front of the cave, but we did see them come back down the hillside. This hillside was too steep to climb up or down normally - they had to walk sideways and plant their feet with edges into the hillside, like skiers do.
When they came down, they were not doing this - they were running down the hillside in bounding leaps, digging their heels in, risking a potentially dangerous fall if they lost their balance and fell forward. It would have looked like "the agony of defeat" film clip. When they walked back into camp, we were surprised they had not been hurt. They passed off the run down the hillside as a misjudgment - they hadn't realized it was so steep, and they were laughing it off (maybe in the face of fear).

After that discussion ended, somebody asked, "Well, did you get to the cave?" They answered no. They had gotten up to the level where the cave opening was and were getting ready to move onto the ledge when they smelled a horrible smell...... as if something was dead in there. Thinking that they had stumbled on a bear or cougar's den with dead prey in it, they thought better of it and came back down. That's why we had never seen them come out on the ledge - they never had and they had just come down the hillside.

That "horrible smell" has the earmarks of bigfoot signs. There also exists the possibility that they were right....... both bear and cougar do inhabit the area. I don't know much about bear or cougar behavior, so whether or not they den in caves in summer and drag prey to dens is not known to me. But this is closer to bf stuff than some of the other events. I wish now I had followed up and looked more closely for signs when I was there.

Event 5: Not sure of the chronology here....... the 1973 events could be in a different order than I presented them.

Summer 1973 - Lower Mora Canyon.

I was stationed at Cannon AFB in Clovis NM - 225 miles from Pecos. On this occasion, we all had duty until 4:30 pm Friday and then had to get our stuff together and take off. We didn't get to Pecos until after dark. On other trips when we got up there late, we'd camped at Iron Gate and walked in in the morning. This night we decided to walk in in the dark. We were young and fearless (and foolish) and we knew the trail pretty well by then. I think there were 3 or 4 of us. We didn't have any lights beside 2D cell flashlights - I might have had the only one and no spare batteries. It was REAL dark and the flashlight wasn't going to make it. It was pretty ineffective anyhow. So we turned it off and let our eyes adjust. We could just barely make out a few feet of trail in front of us, but we took it slow and we were doing fine.

Suddenly................ (it's getting good now, huh?) ahead of us and above us, there was a huge crashing as something HUGE broke down the hillside. There was a crashing and cracking of branches and whatever it was had to cross the trail just ahead on the way down, maybe 50 feet ahead of us or so, and kept going down the hillside... straight down, crashing all the way. The noise lasted a minute or two and apparently ended when it got to the canyon floor. I couldn't find it with the flashlight beam, which was pretty weak by then. It had that "freight train" or "runaway bulldozer" sound described in other encounters. One of the guys said (jokingly), "Holy sh*t, that sounded like bigfoot!" - which was my thoughts exactly. I spun and said, "Don't say that!". Then I had to explain that I thought it was entirely possible that bigfoot could live in the Pecos, and that I'd had a morbid lifelong interest since childhood and that John Green's s-shaped worldwide distribution curve passed right through Pecos and that................. All of which was met with huge guffaws and derision, and for the rest of my time around them, they'd say stuff like "Hey Mac, is that a bigfoot behind the tree over there?". All good-natured though.

Anyhow, to finish the account...... sounded like this thing went STRAIGHT down the hillside. The hillside was covered with aspen trees and several species of coniferous trees - Douglas fir, lodge pole pine, pinon. Whatever it was made a helluva lot of noise as it crashed through the trees and brush - just the crashing, no other sound. I'm not sure if it was
running or tumbling - remember my description of how steep the hillside was. I saw no signs as we passed where I thought it had gone through, but the light was bad and we didn't have the luxury of wasting battery juice looking
around too much. We got down into the canyon and set up camp without further incident and got a fire going and bedded down for the night.

On the walk out, we tried to find in daylight where we had heard the thing, but no success. So, to wrap it up I have said that in the area there are numerous large game species....... black bear, mule deer, white tail, elk, cougar, even bighorn sheep. There is another large animal - cattle. The Forest Service allows grazing in some areas. We saw cattle a few times and even found a dead one on the trail once - probably a winter kill, stuck in a snowdrift, since we saw it early in the year just after spring thaw. So, it coulda been a cow or a bear or elk or maybe even a deer. Coulda been a bigfoot too.

Non-event 6: I took my wife (now ex) to Pecos on our honeymoon in 1974. She just wasn't cut out for the wilderness life LOL. It rained the whole time, we were stuck in our tent (that had certain, uhhh, advantages). I haven't been back since. I had hoped to get back out there sometime permanently, but I came back here after the service and pretty soon it was marriage, mortgage, kids, work....... the grind.

Okay, conclusions. Pecos Wilderness Area has all the attributes necessary to sustain bigfoot.

Remoteness, isolation, and space. No large population centers nearby (Santa Fe then was relatively small and 60 miles away, Albuquerque even further, Pecos and Glorieta are little villages, and Cowles is a tiny hamlet with cabins and campsites. The Sangre De Christos are the rugged southernmost extension of the Rockies. There is just about NOTHING in northern NM except mountains and forest. 1/4th of the state is National Forest land, the majority in the north. The state population in 1970 finally went over 1 million. I'm sure the area built up somewhat during the Sunbelt boom, but the Pecos Wilderness Area is now larger than when I was going there - they have acquired 70, 000 acres more land.

Interesting factoids: Taos is just over the hill from Pecos Wilderness ..... at its northeastern end. The Taos Pueblo Indians have a name for bigfoot: T'oylona, or "Person Big"




RESEARCHERS NOTES: Even though the incidents that were reported did not conclude with a sighting of a Bigfoot, there is a chance that what was heard could have been a Bigfoot fleeing through the forest.

We have found trails where these animals have made their way through thick undergrowth, and did it with ease. Small native pines pushed over to the ground, and most briars, and lower canopy cover was ripped from the ground. The statements about the skeleton being found in such incredibly good condition seems strange to say the least, but I have personally found many skeletons in the same shape. Some were Deer, and some were of Raccoons. I am impressed with the details described in this recollection of the incidents.

I personally would like to thank the submitter for this submission.

Bobby Hamilton (GCBRO)

Report taken and Posted to the G.C.B.R.O. web site by Bobby Hamilton

the backwoods Mad Scientist

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